Curse

Baba_Beast · Jul 10, 2007, 11:10 PM // 23:10

ty for your answers guys but I think I'll point out something:

you said:

1- "high-ranked people wont take you because your a noob, dont know what's bodyblock etc."

2- "they don't take you so the only way to get fames without getting on these teams is to play easy build (IWAY, ritspike)"

3- "get fames with gimmick builds and when rank3+, switch to balance its okay."

4- "HoH is dead beacuse of all the gay build around, THEY NEED TO NERF IT!"

so you're agreeing with me to play gimmick builds till rank 3 but then I got people saying they want nerf and that these build are killing HoH.

high-ranked don't want to take noobs so the noobs need to invent an easy build to be high-ranked and play with these guys but after, the highrnaked says that they want IWAY nerf cause it's killing HoH.

streets101 · Jul 11, 2007, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

-A game which U buy, and "pwn" everything since day one... (IWAY, Ritspike, Heroway, Aka: "Gimmicks"

-A game which U buy, and it takes about 4-5 months to "pwn" other people?

This is where rank is not even a factor. Any smart team will be able to counter a gimmick because they know what they are facing (i.e. who has the hard rez, who to shutdown to stop the build etc.) Thus said the only things required for a team to win are 1) a good strat caller and 2) everyone following the strat. I will admit the build does have somewhat of an effect on the teams performance, but in reality its just the players who play the build. Other factors can change the outcome such as positioning, skills being used correctly, a bar being run correctly. Do not take this next part as a flame plz. For any unranked player that just read the above quote, this is NOT true. A well thought out, and well rank balanced build will outplay these in everyway, just try making friends and run with the same people over and over with the same balanced build over and over (minor tweaks are questionable), and you will succeed. No gimmicks required.

Redirecting to the second statement in 4-5 months a new meta will break for sure. Gimmicks will be countered and new gimmicks will be formed. The era continues with fame farming builds and balanced builds meant to beat those. The one problem about gimmicks is that most of them can only farm the first 2 maps by random pugs (not saying it cannot win halls, any smart team can win) but balance builds just have a better chance in that game of killcount (that anet devs were drunk or high when they came up with this idea). In all honestly i believe kill count is the biggest hurdle for teams. This map removed the amazing play you would see from pressure builds. Back in the day when broken tower was 1 on 1 altar cap, a condition pressure or hex pressure could win and make it to halls and have a great chance winning there aswell. But now this cant be unless you play in the dead hours and get 1 on 1s all the way to halls and then get even more 1 on 1s there then its gg, but other than that all of the builds that required skill have died out, due to this foolish move by anet to change halls. I don't mean to blame it on anet but, when you guys change a perfectly good arena for no apparent reason it makes no sense. At the meta time of the change halls was full of SoM spike holding in the dead hours, and 6 defensive paragons holding as well. For some apparent reason anet would not allow the meta to break. These builds would have been demolished by any good team with a counter build. The reason you see no lower ranked players now is because they cant hold halls, its extremely tough enough as it is now and thats coming from a player who's been playing halls since and before these changes. I know im going off topic but i might as well make a point here instead of making a new thread. This new halls play style is like a joke, dont get me wrong now im not QQin I can back this up. Lets start with relic run, there is a way to come out on top but it depends on who your opponents are (i will explain this later on), for instance any new team in halls wouldnt know which team is a bigger threat if they have just started HA. If you know your oppenent and you have a strat to beat them, most likely you can, but if your opponent knows you, they know what your going to try on them so they try screwing you over (normally). This is where the "halls is broken" idea is true. I will lay out some scenarios. The map is halls and relic run is the game. You know 1 team (Team A) and the other team is a heroway (Team B). You decide stay one relic behind and backline so you do not get snared. Team A catches on to your plan and rushes you with everything they have as a mode of snare. They put u behind in the game in the last 1-2 minutes by 6 or 7 relics leaving you with no time to retaliate. Team A now decides to go straight for Team B and sideline them out of the game for the lead. Now your team just got screwed out of halls. Another scenario is 2 good teams on the same map with you in relic run. Everyone is equally scoring. Your team decieds to continue line backing anyone coming to snare you. Team A rushes you at 1-2 minutes remaining in the match. Now your screwed. Team B decides to rush Team A. Now everyone is getting snared except Team B. Team B now gains the lead and Team A pulls off of you and snares Team B. Now you try to outscore them but Team A has put you in such a hole you cant climb back out. But somehow you make it to a tie breaking game in the last 40 seconds, you attempt to run another relic but since both Teams A and B know you are running freely they send people to snare you now. While they go back to lineback and run freely. Again you get screwed. In a capture point game. You try holding your base and center. Your team is in the center holding it. But Team A splits off for your Home altar. You are forced to retreat to reclaim your Home Base. Now you are pushed away and lose the central altar. What do you do? You try pushing for it again. But the team keeps deciding to come for your altar. Screwed. Right? These are just some of the most random things that happened in the new mode of halls. Some teams can pull it off but how do you expect a pug to pull this off? Think about it Anet. There are far more scenarios, and i know the ones i stated could have been won with different strat calls, but i used the most common choices i see in halls when i go to observe. The above statements are speculations not facts. Do not get me wrong HA can be won, and consecutively (as in 10 or more consecutive in the Hall of Heros) but for a normal pug team to pull it off it is near to impossible.

Wakka · Jul 11, 2007, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Quote:

Just because one low ranked players has most skills unlocked, as a general rule, at lower ranks they're very unlikely to have a large amount of skills unlocked.

Yes, as apparently there are no other forms of PvP for people to play except for HA, right....

shoogi · Jul 11, 2007, 11:45 AM // 11:45

the only way to make HA something other than complete rubbish (thats whats awaiting u) join a dedicated HA guild, there is no other option if u want to get high rank without the lameways. i got to r3 almost only with guild.

God Apprentice · Jul 11, 2007, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by huntingtonm

Thanks to pumpkin pie, for being the proof in the pudding re: r0 n most skills unlocked. God Ap, I have been playing GW since its inception so there is no need to teach me to suck eggs please.

Gimmie, sorry for being so aggresive in my arguments, you just appear to have to gone against the grain of this thread, in my view. Also i was a little offended by your saying since your r3/4 you dont have anything unlocked...you wont be able to play what people are looking for. I mean come on how would you know about what i have or dont?

Ok so I try to give a nice post and I don't know how to take your comment about "sucking eggs", other than that's a Ren and Stimpy quote. As to how would someone know what you have, they won't. If you are fully unlocked though you can say r1-whatever UAX lfg.

For someone who complains about "the elitest attitude" you're quick to insults/sarcasm. I don't know many high ranked people that have this attitude you speak of.

Kyp Jade · Jul 11, 2007, 04:13 PM // 16:13

I dont think anyone plays HA to teach noobs to play. I log on, play with PEOPLE I KNOW. I play HA to compete with the better teams, its loads of fun playing against people who know what they are doing, even when you lose half the time, I love knowing someone on the other team, and dancing on his corpse after he RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed up and got body blocked in a corner by 1 guy or something. I'm not gonna be able to do that with pugs. I very rarely pug, and thats only during the dead hours if im still awake. And when I do pug I want something reliable, and someone who realizes they are gonna get raged at when they screw up CONSISTANTLY. In my experience, when I take lower rank players, they RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO up, a lot. Sure everyone does. But when I point it out to them, and say hey do it right next time, they

a) rage the group
b) whine im picking on the little guy
c) argue (god I hate that, I dont assume you screw up, I SAW you screw up)

And, when i do pug....
Why take some less experienced person (ill give you the benifit of the doubt and say you dont suck cause your low ranked, lotsa low ranked ppl own, but your not experienced if your r0-r3 or so) When I can take someone who like me has played HA for a long time, knows all the map objectives, will probably respond to my tactics calls faster, and will likely fix whatever he screws up after the first time?

Casual PvP
Guild Roster
Friends List
Alliance
hmmm not enough ppl, go pve for an hour

Really want to own face
Guild Roster
Friends List
Alliance
hmmm, not enough ppl, stand around in id1 looking for a decent ranked pug or two but failing cause every pug wants to form heroway/rtspike and most dont know how to play much else..... RQ HA and go to sleep

LifesRestorer · Jul 11, 2007, 04:38 PM // 16:38

thats pretty much the situation.

as kyp said though, people don't work hard getting fame just to go through all the crap with slow fame with some unranked pug. we've been there, done that. We grinded and grinded from balanced at low ranks on that slow learning curve until we're able to play properly. to go through it all again? whats the point, when i have the option to play with others at the same level as i can play.

Indeed, helping lower ranks would in turn help out the whole HA community but it's an idealistic idea, meaning it will never work.

BlackEagle · Jul 12, 2007, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Lol, I'm not gonna argua with u about the fact how he can cancel frenzy... I play spikes, lame and non-lame ones. I've seen r12+ Warriors getting spiked with frenzy... yes, U can get lucky and cancel it before, but if it's a clean spike, gl canceling, and since the warrior is in frenzy, they will often get clean spikes. Also, you're saying that EVERY time the warrior sees them spiknig, he should interrupt his frenzy? I'm not sure what other stance u had in mind, but I'm sure a warrior can NOT maintain it both on energy as on recharge... The key is building up adrenaline, then spike with frenzy, keep gonig on as lnog as u can, if the target won't drop, just get out of frenzy and start over... Keeping frenzy on all the time = GGkthxbai

I know this was off-topic, srry guys

You really should keep frenzy up all the time unless you are taking substancial damage/going to take damage iminently or you need a run speed boost to catch a kiting target. Why would you chose to half your damage output when there's no downside?

And, no I didn't say you cancel everytime that you see an incoming spike, but there are giveaways to every spike as to who it is going to be. As I said, if it has melee, whenever they converrge to unload it's undoubtedly the spike, and with casters, they turn to face you. Yes, sometimes you can't always tell if it will be on you, or someone behind you, but you've got to be able to read the situation. In HA at least, when the standard of caller is going to be low, they're not gonna worry about spiking melee for a while unless you're overextended massively or a number of their spikes aren't goingn through and the spike is armor ignoring. Basically, learn to read the game and who they're going to be spiking.

You shouldn't just be staying on a target for ages to try to kil it, and then change off after spending ages on a single target. You should be constantly switching targets and taking advantage of bad positioning from opposition, and adjusting how defensively you are playing depending on how much pressure you are taking. And just generally changing constantly. If what you are doing isn't working, then change it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wakka

Yes, as apparently there are no other forms of PvP for people to play except for HA, right....

Yes, there are many other forms of pvp other than HA, but as a general rule, when players get into pvp they: do RA/TA for a bit, then they progress onto HA and get a reasonable rank before moving onto gvg, which the only place you can really get a lot of faction very fast.

All my point was that a rank 5 is more likely to have more skills unlocked than a rank 0. That doesn't mean every rank 5 has more skills unlocked than every rank 0.

Lord Mendes · Jul 12, 2007, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackEagle

...

To sum up the whole frenzy debate, a warrior should always be in frenzy, unless he is taking damage/knows he is going to take damage or wants to run faster. As for getting clean spiked, when you see a bunch of casters turn towards you while casting their spike, or a warrior run towards you, you should automatically cancel it. How well you actually do that is one of the things that seperate a good warrior from a bad one. It's like a caster, you should always switch to your shield set when you know that you are going to get pounded.
On the other hand, if you're running some shitty build that can't pressure for shit and warriors are just 321 bots, you suck.